READER FEEDBACK: Do you want to pay the Lodging Tax?
Informal Pinedale Online Poll
by Dawn Ballou
October 28, 2004
In an earlier article, we asked our readers three questions about the Lodging Tax, which will be voted on by Sublette County residents on November 2nd as to whether or not they want to renew it for another four years. We got some really great comments back with some solid answers and refreshing perspectives on the tax from our visitor's points of view. Some people wrote lengthy responses with quality insights on this topic that is of current interest in our county. Scroll down for the comments.
The three questions we asked were:
1. If you came to Pinedale, or Sublette County, in the last 4 years to attend a local event, did you come because you saw or heard out-of-area radio, print media, web or TV advertising about the event that you knew was funded by the Lodging Tax? (Seeing it here on Pinedale Online doesn't count, we don't get funding from the tax to support this website.)
2. If you came to the county to attend an event, did you find an affordable and close place to stay, or did you get turned away due to "No Vacancy"?
3. Do you want to continue to pay an additional 3% tax on your overnight room rate for the next 4 years to subsidize advertising about what is going on in our county?
Click here for the original article entitled, Do you want to pay the Lodging Tax?
READER FEEDBACK:
(Click Refresh on your browser to see latest comments)
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November 1, 2004:
I have been to Pinedale twice in the last four years and have therefore paid the lodging tax. Neither time did I attend an event that I saw advertised or knew was subsidized by the tax as both times I came to backpack in the Winds. In both instances I made motel reservations well in advance and didn't have any trouble. Last year in late August I came out a day earlier than planned and at 6:00 pm couldn't get a room at the Best Western or Pinedale Lodge but was able to get a room at a locally owned motel. I also decided to stay an extra day and was able to get a room at the Pinedale Lodge (I wanted to use the pool) 24 hours in advance.
I check out your website virtually everyday and enjoy knowing what is going on in Pinedale and Sublette County. I don't mind paying the tax. I travel frequently for business and pleasure and 3% is nothing compared to the 10% and 12% lodging taxes imposed in most places. To the extent it subsidizes Pinedale Online and other local events I do not have a problem paying it. Given that virtually everyplace has a lodging tax, that is not what is keeping people from visiting. If demand for rooms is high, prices for the rooms will be high and that is what would keep someone from visiting- the fact that they can't get "a deal" on a room, not a lodging tax. -Ohio
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October 30, 2004:
I stayed in Pinedale in June of 2003 with my family. The stay was part of a vacation tour of Wyoming which included a college visit to the University of Wyoming. We stayed in Pinedale because of "Pinedale Online." The cost of food and lodging in Pinedale was reasonable. The reservations were made four months in advance. Thus, we had no problems with a place to stay. The cost of advertising is paid for somewhere. I can either pay for the advertising directly through a tax on lodging or by higher prices on my purchases. The higher prices affect everybody. I am willing to continue to pay the tax on lodging. However, I would like to see "Pinedale Online" get some funding from the tax. More and more people are using the internet to obtain information about places to visit and things to do.
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October 30, 2004:
I do not feel the tax is necessary. It is hard to find a room if you do not book it far in advance. If heads in beds is the goal, you should reevaluate your goals. That one is satisfied for all practical proposes.
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October 30, 2004:
1. We’ve come through Pinedale the past 3 years on our way to stay at The Flying A Ranch. We only knew about Pinedale from the maps sent from the ranch. (Just so you know, we prefer Pinedale, by far, to Jackson)
2. We’ve not had a problem finding a place to stay in town. We typically book reservations about a month in advance though.
3.We have no problem with paying a room tax. It seems to be a common practice in most communities. If you visit out here, you more than likely pay more than 3%.
- California
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October 29, 2004:
Came to see friends in Farson in '02 and wanted to see Mountain Man Museum. Just missed rondezvous. Got turned away from everyplace, finally found a nice B and B off the main street about 8 in evening, lucky because I was not well. We are willing to pay the 3%, we realize income is much greater in the east than Wyoming, it is not too much too ask, but wish Pinedale could stay a secret, it is nice.
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October 28, 2004:
I just wanted to respond to your informal poll regarding the lodging tax. My family and I come to the Pinedale area multiple times each year. On some of those trips, we do have to stay in local area lodging.
(A) Did I learn about anything that I attended in Pinedale as a result of the lodging tax? No I can’t say that I have learned about anything as to where the 110K has been used. I have noticed plenty regarding, as of late, about voting for the tax but I don’t remember seeing a lot as to what the tax has been used for. Its possible that it has been in the paper and I just missed it though.
(B) I haven’t been turned away at any time for a “no vacancy”.
(C) I do not have an objection about the tax and do not mind paying it. I would support the tax personally. I just think more needs to be brought out as to what the tax has been used for in order to continue to increase tourism in the area.
This last part is not in response to the questions your asked online but I would like to comment on one thing. I “do” think that the oil / gas companies have contributed to several groups, occasions, events in the Pinedale area and I’m sure all of that is well appreciated. I see something in the paper every week where they have sponsored something. I have to ask though, if you added up all their contributions of $500, $1000, or even the $10,000 donations, how much total has it added up to? I doubt very seriously that you could even count up $250,000 total. For the hundreds of millions of dollars that they are making, does everyone really feel that they (the oil / gas companies) have donated their fair share? Being that housing is a problem in the area, maybe they should work toward supplying “real” housing (true apartments) in the area as vs “man camps”. Man Camps provide no additional tax dollars, right? How much are they supporting true environmental care in the area? How about maybe they support upgrades of the water / sewer systems in the area? How about maybe they contribute more toward education, health care, and things of that nature in the area? All of the people that are working in the fields, and all the increased families in the area, how are they supporting this influx now? How are they better preparing the Pinedale, Sublette County, area for what will happen when the gas runs out? I just thought I’d ask those questions. I’m sure someone probably has already asked all of that but just in case they haven’t.
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October 28, 2004:
We came on holiday from Scotland, stayed a few nights in Pinedale and 7 days on a Ranch. I think you should keep the tax, to provide services to the visitors and locals. Although I find local taxes alien to my thinking, they are never used in the UK, I think they are a good idea if used to fund visitor attractions. I had a wonderful time in Pinedale Area met many friendly people.
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October 28, 2004:
1) I haven’t visited for any events. I visit every year or so to see the Winds.
2) I always stay at the Half Moon, no problem with vacancy since I usually reserve a month in advance.
3) Sure, it’s fine with me.
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October 27, 2004:
Editor's Note: The Museum of the Mountain Man sent in this clarification about what we wrote earlier about oil & gas company contributions to support the Green River Rendezvous Pageant in past years: The McMurry Foundation out of Casper generously contributed $5,000 towards the Rendezvous Pageant so that there would be no entry fee for five years, from 1998-2002.. This year the Rendezvous Pageant was under the management of the Green River Rendezvous Committee, which did receive some funds from oil & gas contributions, but there was still a $5.00 gate fee for the Pageant.
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October 27, 2004:
One fairly major point--the tax isn't taxation without representation because paying the tax isn't a mandatory requirement. The visitor can choose to NOT stay at the hotel, or whatever, and pay the tax. No one is being forced to pay the tax--it is solely voluntary and accepting a room is accepting, in a voluntary manner, payment of the tax.
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October 27, 2004:
In answer to the 3 questions posed,
1 - No. In 10 years I have not come to Pinedale because of advertising. I came because I have friends who are Pinedale residents who keep me informed of upcoming events. (Actually Pinedale Online is my best source!)
2 - Never turned away. But now I have own home on upper green.
3 - After reading the article, paying the tax for "advertising" is simply ludicrous. Private enterprise can prepare its own advertisement. Anyone who believes the amount of money gained for advertising will make a dent is nuts. It can cost $3,000 for 1000 quality brochures (I stress quality because cheap photocopies of an old flyer is going to be ignored as trash). Keep the 3% tax but put it into your local museums so visitors get a top of the line experience.
I would venture a good guess that most out of your road traffic is traveling to Yellowstone, Grand Teton or Jackson Hole. Only diehard backpackers, fishermen and hunters, or family and friends, all groups of limited numbers, are the extent of your Sublette County destination tourists. And they already know why they are coming to Pinedale. Seeing the Mountain Man Museum on the Discovery Channel or reading a book on the Oregon Trail or about Trappers or Mountainmen would provide a bigger impact on destination tourism then a considerably inexpensive advertising scheme.
And targeting youth groups? Do you think youths are a source of tourist money? It is the parents who pay for the vacations.
A few years ago I found an Elk Ridge Lodge brochure in a Southern California sporting goods store. That is the only time I saw any Sublette County affiliated advertisement anywhere from Colorado to California. If you are spending $70,000.00 per year for out of county advertising, it sure would be interesting to know your target group or how it was advertised. And $40,000 per year on your board!? Why?...
And what is with the newspaper advertisement that everyone should expect their tax being increased by $450.00. How about if the tax disappears, maybe quit wasting the money in the first place.
I am very dubious of the concept of $110,000.00 for marketing achieving an impact on increased tourism. A bunch of misplaced flyers and a few radio spots in small market areas is a waste of money. You would be better off shipping the money off to a state board of tourism to promote Wyoming as a whole. But that does Sublette County no direct good. So...keep the tax in place but put the revenue into the public and non-profit facilities that enamor and enthrall us tourists; the Museums, the parks, the Historic District, even the visitors center (not the Chamber of Commerce - that is a business organization that exists for private enterprise. Yes, bringing tourists betters private enterprise but government can't give tax revenue to a business and tell it how to satisfy the consumer. But it can award a grant to a non-profit or improve a public facility with specific direction.)
I'm sorry, but what I read in your article tells me someone involved in spending the tax hasn't poked his or her head over the Wind River or Wyoming Ranges in a long time. There is a big world out there that responds differently then thought. Again, keep the tax but put it where it will benefit more.
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October 27, 2004:
Editor's Note: This comment came in from the Sublette Chamber of Commerce to clarify the point in the original story of the $450 tax increase if the lodging tax is not passed.
"The figure comes from the state Travel and Tourism office and is derived from taking the tax revenue collected from travel and tourism sales for the state which totals $89 million. Then Divide $89 million in taxes collected by the number of Wyoming households in the 2000 census results in the $450. The Dean Runyon report lists the total impact in sales and tax revenue collected. This $450 figure was used last year, so the increase in taxes collected by offset any increase in the number of households. The $450 would not apply to each man, woman, and child but rather the household. The figure has been printed in numerous places by the state office of travel and tourism."
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October 27, 2004:
NO, no tax is a good tax but to single out one specific group (tourists) is as I see it unconstitutional. My family will be in Pinedale in a couple of days and we are staying 5 nights in a hotel there to go hunting. we could almost stay another night with the tax we paid fishing and hunting this year alone, 3 less meals to eat at the wrangler less money at the gas station and no goodies from Faliers. Oh well who says it doesn't affect us locally.
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October 27, 2004:
Let me relate what has happened to my community that imposed such a tax. After a number of years it has become a slush fund for the politically connected. Often needed projects are denied while the fund grows and then is handed out as a large lump sum to a favorite ad agency or "business" advocates. This is not fair.
The arrogant attitude that we do not have to pay for it is demeaning to anyone that comes to this or any location. When the locals feel it is fair to collect a tax that we have had no say in it may be legal but not fair. I pay gas tax when buying gas in Pinedale. That is fair since I have received a quality service in using the roads. What benefit have I received from this? If the hotels and providers of rooms want to spend money then they should self tax themselves. Does it raise the price, yes. It does one very important thing and that is remove government from the capitalist equation. The argument is that if we advertise and other owners do not they are receiving benefit of out efforts. This might be true. It is still not enough of a reason to force someone to participate or pay a tax.
Each dollar taken from the profit line is a dollar that is not available to be paid to maid and ground crews. Saying that "free" entry to events is a false concept. The dollars taken in tax is the fee, not free. Once again if the proprietors want to provide such a "complimentary" admission from their profits that is correct.
"It isn't fair" is not a good enough excuse to continue the tax, nor is a quiet little laugh as you walk into the voting booth to vote for it since you are sticking it to the outsiders. Looks at San Diego or Santa Barbara in California as examples of the "little" add on taxes that now make the onerous taxes the highest in the state. Heck a dollar here a dollar there, soon it adds up to a whole lot of money.
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October 27, 2004:
I have no problem in paying the 3% tax. Pinedale & Sublette County have so much to offer, that it would be cheap at twice the price. Knowing the popularity of events in Pinedale and the relative small number of places to stay, I try to book a place well in advance. Y'all just keep on doing what ever it takes to keep making Pinedale & Sublette County my favorite place to be on God's earth." - Texas
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